I just bought the H-Reverb, but Im not sure about the ducking function, what it actually does. The manual basically sais that it ‘ducks’, but listening to what it does, Im not sure if it the same as what I learned what ducking is.
For me ducking means that a compressor lowers the volume when a new signal is detected, but when I activate the ducking function of the H-Reverb, I hear the first part of the reverb get significantly louder, like its boosting the input gain.
Anyone who can shine some light on this?
Often times putting a blanket reverb over everything can make it sound muddy or subtract from its overall presence. Especially if you want it at a level that you want it to be “heard”. To get around that some clever dude came up with the idea of “ducking” a reverb.
This works, essentially, by placing a compressor after a reverb. which is set to reduce the reverb level by a fair degree. This compressor gets fed a sidechain signal directly from the audio you’re wanting to process. Now this is the most interesting bit. When the compressor detects sound coming from the source audio it compresses the reverb, effectively turning it down. This happens until it detects no source signal, in which case it releases the reverb which raises its level allowing it to be more audible in the track.
By processing reverb in this way you can have the best of both worlds. You can have a more audible reverb in your track, but won’t fog up the intelligibility of the vocals or the music.
In the case of H-Reverb the compressor is built inland is called a “Ducker”. It’s already set up and ready to go. All you have to do is turn the Thresh(old) knob, to determine how much you want the reverb turned down when a signal is present, and the Recovery knob, which determines how quickly the reverb will swell up when there is no main signal.
Thanks for the input, Simon! Thats indeed what was tought how ducking works, but my question was not about how ducking works, but why the ducking funcion, instead of the described ducking effect, seems to increase the input gain of the reverb
Ah!! Well, I’ll try to have a closer listen to it in a day or two.
But I’m pretty sure it will work the way I described above. Although, they may not use compression, they may use something more transparent, like the ducking feature in Vocal Rider.
Hey, sorry to bump a 5 year old topic, but this was what I found when I did a google search. To me, the ducker of H Reverb is not working properly at all, which is a real shame as it’s one of the most supreme quality reverbs otherwise, but I am having to sidechain into it on a bus to get a proper ducking effect. Even at the maximum -50 threshold and longer release, it is just not muting enough of the reverb and then also not coming in as it should after the source audio has played through. It’s like it’s constantly ducking in and out, egregiously, and impossible to smooth out. Waves can obviously fix this, cause if they coded a reverb of this quality, that means they can code a proper ducker. To give an example of how ducking should work, try Pro R-2, or Soundtoys Superplate. Perfect ducking in those. However, in my latest track, no reverb would sound good on this really plucky synth source except the H verb. I needed a somewhat thick but completely unmetallic tail, and that was the only one that delivered, or Manny Marroquin reverb. I am beyond impressed with the Waves reverbs, just want the ducker fine tuned. Any ideas?
Hey @TTOZ,
Welcome to the Waves Forum.
Is it reproduced with other sound sources? Or is it only with the plucky synth sound mentioned?
In any case, to get this properly investigated I advise getting in touch with our Technical Support team who will be able to provide more information once tested and reproduced in-house.
Hi, I have tried it on drums, synths and bass, and it just doesn’t duck properly. Now maybe Waves thinks that’s how it should duck and it’s by design, so my advice is to investigate alternatives as any other plugin that has ducking works exactly as it should ( I have about 17 other plugins with the feature). All that ducking should do is lower the amount of the effect, reverb in this case, that is heard whilst the source is playing, depending on threshold to set just how much of the verb we want to hear, and then when the source is no longer sending audio, the full effect of the verb should very quickly but smoothly come in. It’s like automating a wet dry knob really, to use an analogy.
That’s ducking. H reverb simply does not do this and behaves very strangely. It’s a WONDERFUL reverb and probably in the top 5 reverb plugins ever made as far as quality, and a properly working duck feature would just be the icing on the cake. I’d use it for everything if it is ever fixed! Cheers
PS the compression option seems to work normally, it’s just the ducking that’s the issue when selected.
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I forgot all about this. I’ll try to have play around with it today/tomorrow and see if I can figure out what is happening
Any news on this one?
Hey @TTOZ,
The Ducking Dynamic mode on the H-Reverb lowers the volume of the reverb by a set amount while the direct signal is above the threshold, and back to unity gain when the direct signal goes under the threshold.
The plugin has pre-set attack and release times for the Ducking mode that we believed should work for most use cases – these values cannot be changed, and I believe this is the challenge you’re encountering.
It is possible that these settings don’t exactly suit what you’re looking for. In this case, we would recommend doing what you suggested – inserting a compressor or ducker plugin after H-Reverb and sidechaining it to the dry signal; exactly as you would do with reverb plugins that don’t have a ducking feature built-in.
Hi, no that’s not the challenge. I have to say that I think Waves therefore simply do not understand how reverb ducking works. It might be working as Waves intended, but that doesn’t mean it’s actually ducking. Yesterday I tried with reverbs from half a second to 6 seconds, I spent an hour with it actually, tried on vocals, transient drums and a synth lead, it just doesn’t work.
I can put the threshold at the absolute lowest and the reverb is still there at almost full power, playing the entire time whilst the signal is present.
Do you understand that ducking is supposed to literally lower or DUCK the reverb whilst a signal is present, then bring it back in when that signal stops? In case you guys had it backwards, I also tried with threshold at upper maximum of 0DB which was just as weird as the low threshold. The entire thing doesn’t make sense.
Sorry but side chaining in Pro Tools is unpleasant and there’s only mono side chaining. It’s not straightforward to do like Cubase or Logic and becomes a mess of routing. That’s why I want a reverb with a built in ducker, not be told to just not use it rather than it being fixed.
So that’s fine, do what you want, but that’s not a ducker. Call it something else. Maybe dynamics weird-ifier. Seriously.
I should post a video for you showing what ducking is.
By the way, any plugin I use that has a ducker, besides one, have fixed internal non adjustable A/R times. They work just fine. The issue here is that H-Reverb actual tail quality is pretty much one of the best reverbs in the world, which is why I am so desperate for the ducker to work properly.
Now how’s this. If a sidechain solution works, and I can use ANY dynamics plugin to get the result (heck, to prove the point I’ll even use one with fixed attack and release times), doesn’t that tell you that you just contradicted yourself and yours isn’t ducking properly if a 3rd party solution can do it? Seriously now. So frustrating but you basically just said it youself!
Thank you for your feedback and insights.
One of our technical support representatives will soon reach out via email to investigate this further.
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