CLA Epic routing

Hey all,

The new CLA EPIC seems like a great plugin. However, wouldn’t one want to be able to use each delay and reverb as a seperate send/aux? Or am I missing something? Using one instance as a send would mean that each channel would get the same ratio of reverb and delay.

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I agree, It would be great to have the possibility to cut the input which feeds the reverb directly, so that we could use the delays going to their reverbs without having the reverb for the direct sound… Maybe I’m missing something but for now we can’t do that… so a layer of 4 faders for the four sends of input signal to each of the reverb would be what would make it perfect… we could send the input to reverb A, and the delays to reverb B for example… For now we can’t have reverb B without the direct input feeding it…

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@waves Couldn’t you do something like the NLS for this plugin? Provide 4x4 single instances which can be used as sends which is then routed to a bus which could contain the master with all faders. This could then have all the mute, volume and routing control as well as CLAs presets etc.

Hi guys,

EPIC represents CLA’s production style. Chaining delays into reverbs and modulating the sound. The rationale is to share the same ‘space’ so the mix depth would be more prominent. CLA EPIC could be thought of as an FX return path of a pre-DAW analog console.

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I had the same thoughts as well. Would be EPIC if there was one instanse where you can set which 1 of 8 devices you want to set it at, then set your 8 or so devices as send / return tracks in DAW and control all 8 devices from one single device. like MixHub. This way you could route the 8 devices outside of Epic, to your likings, and send anything of you mix you want to any of the 8 devices and to any ratio you like. Would be setting effects in buckets (Epic EffectHub). But after watching yesterday’s webinar I get that Epic is intended to be used as an insert and not send/return. This underestimates the average mixing engineer’s abilities and undermines the plugins potential for use in pro level enviroments. Just my two pennies…

What you can do is use it as inspiration and setup other reverbs and delays on their own auxes and configure them to your liking and pass your main instruments through them. For everything else just use Epic

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I have noted something… I didn’t found it in the manual… As soon as you activate a send into a reverb from a delay, let’s say you send delay A to reverb B, it mute the send of the direct input to that reverb… I would have prefered a knob control of the send of direct input above each reverb fader, but it is more usefull than I thought.

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Yes, noticed that since day 1. You cannot have the direct signal and the delay go into the same reverb. That sucks and its not what CLA showcased in the mix in depth videos.

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Yeah thats the thing. the limits of this plugin will be confined to his desired workflow. But supposedly, thats all you’ll need, at least according to CLA.

I’m not completely sold on that, but it doesnt stop this plugin from being useful.

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The problem is that you can’t actually follow CLA’s workflow as he demonstrates on the vintage gear. Each of his reverbs and delays were set to separate return tracks, so you could set the send for each one from each source. E.g. I can crank up the send level of vocal into the slap delay specifically and leave the send lower for things like drums if I want. Because of the plug-in architecture (maybe a limitation of how VSTs work?), you only get one send channel that feeds the plug-in. That means I get one “setting” that has to work for everything I feed it to or I need multiple instances of the plug-in to tweak for each instrument I’m sending and then somehow have to keep those settings in sync. For this plug-in to truly follow the workflow CLA demos in the promo videos, this plug-in would somehow need to operate as 8 independent returns with the ability for the delays to also be sent into the reverb returns.

NOTE: I’m NOT talking about having separate effects settings for each instrument. I get that the point is to keep them the same, but I do need to control how much of each instrument is being sent to each effect.

This is the reason I found it not very “compatible” for the way I like to work. The compromise here would to use one instance per group of instruments, like one for drums another for vocals etc. This can get very CPU intensive though.

Of course you can just put it on a small handful of your “main” instruments and use regular reverbs for the others. This will also help to create a bit of separation in the mix

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I really love the processing inside Epic, but I too would prefer to do my own routing.

The good news is – you can! Just use 8 instances of Epic, with 4 delays and 4 reverbs (to match the CLA videos)

I’ve done this on my machine with no problem, but it would be nice to know if Waves intelligently turns off CPU for internally muted sends… otherwise that’s 24 unused effect instances!

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If I recall correctly, and hopefully I do, I’m fairly sure Epic disables the processing if you deactivate the effects on the left side.

It doesn’t do it for Mute and Solo, though, but that makes sense because you can then automate those features whenever you need to and you won’t get any “clicking” when the processing activates.

@JunkyardSam please note that all CLA Epic processors are On all the time.

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Thank you for the info, @OdelWaves – that’s helpful to know.

It’s quite amazing because the modules sound very good – great, even – but I’ve been using 8 instances of the plugin without issue! 4 delays, 4 reverbs, using one in each and then routing them further in my DAW. But that’s quite a bit of unused overhead apparently.

It’s a testament to efficient code, I guess!

I wish the modules could be used independently, since that’s the only way to truly get the same routing as CLA showed in the video. 4 delays and 4 reverbs, all shared with each other but via separate busses.

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Oh, are you telling me that I’m wrong on that one??

I was under the impression the modules could be disabled, clearly. I would think it to be almost a design flaw to not kill the processes you’re not using. Saving the DSP would enable to use more instances in a project.

@JunkyardSam CLA Epic is indeed relatively efficient in CPU consumption and normally users are able to run a few instances. What exact video of CLA are you referring to? Could you please share a link?

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@simon.a.billington :slight_smile: I believe all CPU processors are On all the time in order for CLA Epic to fit in Live applications. The plug-in would not produce clicks when changing settings or snapshots. Considering nowadays CPU processors are strong so strong they can run a few Epic instances also for DAW users.

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@simon.a.billington I will test the CPU usage tonight, to figure out for sure. I’ll layer a ton of them with everything on and measure the difference between just one thing on.

@OdelWaves – The CLA video is a Waves video series they made to promote Epic… But it’s amazing. The idea is to use 4 different delays and 4 different reverbs, together, when you start your mix:

Delay Sends: Slap, Tape, Throw, Crowd
Reverb Sends: Plate, Room, Hall, Non-Linear

And the delays always output to some degree into the reverbs so they never sound too canned. It’s called “Mix with Epic Depth: Complete Reverbs & Delays by Chris Lord-Alge”

It’s absolutely brilliant. Even if you don’t use them to an extreme in a song, just having them there ready to go gives you a dimensional palette ready to use.

Where it gets weird is — Waves based the plugin on his bus setup. Which is cool, but the only way to actually replicate the CLA setup is to create 8 auxes in your DAW. Luckily I can run that many instances of Epic with no problem. But Epic isn’t required to do the CLA technique, it can be setup in other ways. And as my template evolves I use a variety of plugins for it including H-Delay, Epic, and a few others.

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Ah yes that makes sense.

Although Mute could be used to keep a module active while they buttons on the left could still be easily exploited to deactivate the. modules and offload the CPU.

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